Bombay School Listen to Teachers & Parents: Stop Bible Classes

Following significant opposition from teachers and parents, the board of trustees at Bombay School have decided to discontinue the Bible in Schools programme for 2019. The original survey was carried out in November 2017 but due to delays, a final decision wasn’t made until the last term of 2018. Below, I’ve reproduced the results of two surveys that they carried out. One for teachers and another for parents. It is really heartening to see that nearly 80% of teachers felt that the classes were not required. Their comments note the lack of professionalism of the Bible teachers and the inappropriate religious bias being presented in a secular state school.

The parents were split roughly 50/50. The parents in favour of the classes are giving reasons that are mostly selfish and ignore the fact that other people do not share their religious choices. The parents commenting against Bible classes are more focused on the principles involved; the fact that schools are supposed to be secular, that society is more diverse than it was, that church is freely available outside of school, that the classes are biased and practical points around the impact on curriculum learning.

The replies to the survey are below. I have edited the format of some comments as they were mixed up in the original document and also redacted a couple of names that should have been removed. Congratulations to Bombay School for standing up and making changes based on principles rather than allowing any group to continue imposing their religious views on the school as a whole.

Bombay School Teachers Survey on Bible in Schools

Do you favour the continuation of Bible in School lessons in 2018?

18 responses

You indicated yes to the question one, could you please expand on your reasons for saying yes?

4 responses

• good for the children to add to their learning of values.
• I actually like the idea of exposing children to the morals and values addressed in the BIS sessions through very specific instruction, however I realise how difficult it is to get suitable people to deliver the programme.
• I like the values that it gives the children that they may not get elsewhere.
• its important for chn to be exposed to RE & as a teacher of it I love seeing the chn respond positively to each lesson & look forward to them

You indicated no to the question one, could you please expand on your reasons for saying no.

14 responses

• I believe that state schools should be secular.
• Good morals and messages but it is very old skol and the students are disengaged. There is no control
• Bible teachers do not have enough control, children disengaged during lessons, a lot not wanting to be in lesson
• Too busy with an already crowded curriculum.
• Think it should be done in the younger years – Juniors year 0-2
• Changing cultures enrolling-one size doesn’t fit.
• 1. I believe that we should be teaching children about all religions when we teach about cultures/countries around the world (as is taught in the UK). Then the teachers can say .. “Christians believe…” Muslims believe… Sikhs believe… This will allow our children to grow up with a more open mind, respecting the belief systems of others. We live in a multicultural society – locally and globally!
  2. The current bible teaching is NOT values based (as it is claimed to be). It is based on stories from the bible which the teachers say are true.
  3. It is confusing for children.
  4. Many parents feel their children do not want to opt out as they will be the odd ones out.
  5. This is VALUABLE time in which we could be fitting in some VALUES based teaching ourselves which are relevant to the current needs of our class.
  6. TIME – We do not have enough time to fit in all areas of the curriculum and assessment needs and expectations as it is.I feel that I could utilise the extra half an hour more productively with teaching other curriculum areas. Also we are getting more and more children opting out of doing Bible and we have to cater for these children who do not participate which is difficult when you are trying to supervise the class while the Bible teacher is taking the lesson.
• quality of teaching is generally poor, it is a waste of precious school time. I’m glad I no longer have it.
• The content is okay but delivery and class management not up to standard.
• Children shouldn’t be indoctrinated in any religon. It is a choice families make to affiliate with a belief system.
• It seems more indoctrination rather than learning about religion
• Sadly the Bible teachers seem to struggle with knowing expected behaviours of our children. also I don’t feel some of the children are open to the message they are being given.
• If kids need an introduction to the Bible (and they do), let them get it at Church.

If a decision is made to continue with Bible in School in 2018, what ideas could you share about how the school can cater for children who have opted out?

14 responses

• Teachers could be on a supervision roster.
• Not sure
• read a book, m
• athletics
• Put in one spot such as the Library and looked after by someone who doesn’t have classroom responsibilities.
• N/A
• Teachers, management rostered to look after them.
• Hmmm. That’s a toughy, as teachers are required to be in the class with bible teachers, so if we have a lot of students opting out then I guess we would have to combine classes. Then perhaps teachers actually run some values based teachings – team games, cooperative activities, drama relating to key competencies. Not ideal – but it’s a wasted half hour of learning time otherwise.
• Someone taking all of these children to do some work around key competencies. This is hard though because you cannot get a teacher to do this because they need to be in their classrooms during this time.
• If there was a staff member available to take it, maybe a values session would be good
• No idea
• Have a supervised area for them???
• options / extension classes
• Reading
• in the past Kotare have had students join rm 4/14 who do not have bible teacher

Please use this box if you have any other comments/ ideas to raise.

7 responses

• The curriculum is crowded. Teachers need all the time they can get to cover the curriculum. Religious instruction should be the perrogative of parents who cater for this need in their own time.
• There are some teachers of BIS who deliver the programme in an engaging manner, and give children a perspective that they may not otherwise be exposed to in modern times, but unfortunately not all of the programmes are delivered equally. …in regard to the next question, I am surprised that it needs to be asked. Surely if this has gone out to ‘staff’, you would know by our names (as previously mentioned this is not an anonymous survey) if we were teachers or support staff???
• Thanks for addressing this. Clearly I feel strongly that school is no longer the place for preaching Christianity in modern NZ.
• If families want their children brought up in the christian faith it is their job to do it, not school.
• We could replace Bible with a values and virtues programme.
• RE is essential to continue particularly as some chn have had NO exposure to any form of RE from their home life
• I think Bible in school as has offered a wonderful service for year but it seems like it is also hard for them to “staff” now

Bombay School Parents Survey on Bible in Schools

You indicated yes to the question one, could you please expand on your reasons for saying yes?

36 responses

• I like giving them an opportunity to learn about religion
• A basic understanding of the bible is possibly helpful for kids to understand other peoples devotion to the church
• We believe it has a positive impact on our son outside of Church. He is sometimes resistant to attending Sunday School, however he has never complained about having the lesson at school – perhaps with it being taught around his school friends.
• Don’t see any harm in it
• I see no harm in it. NZ was built on a Christian foundation, it’s part of what makes New Zealand, New Zealand. I would however also be happy for the format to change to a more broader level as detailed in the next answer.
• I believe it is important for the families who wish for their children to learn about the bible should have a choice!
• I believe it’s important for children to have an understanding of faith (in all its formats)
• You can’t make informed decisions later in life if you don’t experience all life has to offer.
• It is an essential part of learning and growing and broadening the understanding of living in a predominantly christian country
• It opens up a new world and the children enjoy it
• The children really enjoy learning about Jesus. It’s a great moral base for them.
• Its a part of education and understanding important historical events that have formed society
• I believe that as long as it’s kept as an introduction and light hearted it does no harm to children to learn there are other forms of worship and personal beliefs.
• There are many families who would like their child (or are indifferent/don’t mind) to have knowledge of the bible but for any number of reasons don’t attend church. Bible in Schools is an opportunity for those children to learn about the basic principles of what it means to be a Christian. Christianity in the community (both Maori and Pakeha) has been fundamental in New Zealand’s history so for this reason also, I think it is important to make it the ‘default’ option rather than “secular” being the default option.
• We do not go to Church but it is one way for Xxxxx to understand the bible and basics of an religion
• My children like bible studies and enjoying learning about right and wrong
• Because it is good for children to learn about god and appreciate the things around them and learn to be better people. And I think bible should be thought in all schools.
• Because our society was originally based on biblical principles
• As a child I had the option of attending Bible in School’s whilst attending primary school, I found it beneficial to be involved with acting scenes and putting on end of year productions, it also gave me something to believe in as a child, even if it meant as an adult I didn’t stick to that one particular faith/religion once i learnt more about what was out there.
• I believe it is important for all children to be educated on being a Christian. Without an understanding of religion or faith they can’t make an educated decision on how this could be part of their life.
• Although we are not religious I like the kids learning about it and also many of the Christan values are values we agree with Teaches children what Christianity is about. It’s harmless learning so long as that is what it’s about and there is no expectation or pressure for kids to convert .
• To learn about Jesus & the bible is essential for ones spiritual journey & many students are not provided with this opportunity outside of school
• I agree with Bible in school and would like to think it is teaching children that everyone has different beliefs and tolerance. However, my daughter says she isn’t learning much from the classes, and this could be the way it is presented to the younger children. She is keen to learn from the stories.
• children need christian morals to survive happily in this world of despair and fair
• Bible in school focus on life lessons and not religion. It teaches kindness and generosity among so many other good things
• I think it is not a bad thing for my chn to learn this it certainly won’t do them any hatred my children have always enjoyed it and never complained
• ***** loves it. It upholds values that I like. Being kind to others etc
• I personally think understanding and having strong Christian values is a good foundation for children to be encouraged to make good choices. I think as long as the meaning and moral of the bible stories are explained children can understand the importance of the values being shared and their transference to their own situations.
• Gives the children an understanding of religion that they might not otherwise get home.
• NZ as a country is a Christian country our observed holidays follow the Christian calendar so yes I think that there is a place for Bible in school. I also consider the basic teachings are good principles to follow.
• Keeping an open mind, broadening knowledge of history etc
• Christian
• We are not a religious family but I don’t see harm in the children learning about the bible, there is benefit in knowing about other religions and beliefs.
• I feel my child can have a choice to be religious if he decides to be.
• We don’t go to church as a family so I think it’s good to have it in school because my children learn about Christianity

You indicated yes to the question one, what ideas can you share about how the school can cater for those students whose parents have opted out of Bible in Schools?

36 responses

• They can go outside or to the hall and do some type of movement/exercise
• Respect the parents wishes and offer alternative learning for the time of Bible Studies (nothing fun, as the bible kids won’t be happy about it) perhaps additional math/reading study
  Attendance in library.
• No
• I understand that there are other religions in New Zealand so there is a need to, not preach them but maybe discuss them at a broader level ie where does the religion come from, how do they celebrate.
• These children could be offered another class session being art or reading?
• In the happiness work I do, I’ve found that one of the key factors in people’s happiness is their faith. It’s less important what they actually believe in, than the fact they have identified a system of belief. In my view, children should have the opportunity to review a variety of belief systems and understand what faith can offer
• I personally think they’re making decisions without giving the child a chance to learn about religion and make their own decision later in life as to whether they believe in it or not.
• The teachers could use the time for special reflections and quiet time for these children on their own beliefs or those of their parents.
• Sit in hall or library and read a book
• Baha’i the teaching of unifying oneness across religion
• Given alternative work
• Project work, helping the teachers of the junior school to prep for project work to give them a better appreciation of how much work the teachers have to do. Also extra maths worksheets maybe?
• Morals based programme; reading books; older students reading to younger students or helping them with schoolwork; perhaps older students could devise a morals based programme to teach younger students with the supervision of one or two teachers or parents
• i see It is as there choice but it is a learning tool and should be encouraged just to know the basics of the reasons behind Christmas and Easter and why things happened,
• Have another subject for them to learn
• Well that’s there decision if they don’t won’t there kids in bible school but there missing out on learning about how to be a better person and also about god.
• School leaders possible to supervise library time.
• Offer Bible in Schools that cater towards other faiths that are outside of Christian Based Faiths, but carry one teaching at normal for those not involved. Students could learn about other historical things such as folk lore and fairy tales. Should they move onto studying literature and history in high school.
• Similair learning such as respect, kindness, compassion, honesty just take away the religious level.
• Their parents can answer that I don’t believe they should be normal classroom activities as it would be fair if children were disadvantaged by taking bible
• Extra maths or reading
• If parents don’t want their child to learn about the bible then they should provide some religious material of their choice for their child to read to enhance their own spiritual journey.
• Not sure
• set up a study time for those who don’t want to participate
• One of the seniors children can take them to the library and they can read books.
• Maybe a broader range of religion rather than just Christian beliefs as another may suit someone better
• Inquiry topic that is student lead and they need to research something applicable to them or handwriting
• I think understanding cultures, history of religions and why people in the world turn to an intangible faith for strength and to make sense of the world is important, as is teaching acceptance of the many and diverse beliefs that people hold.
• None that’s their prerogative to opt out
• Don’t really see a strong valid reason for opting out personally regardless of your personal beliefs, if their own home beliefs/teachings are so strong any conflicting instructions during bible studies shouldn’t be an issue, I see bigger problems with some of the things that are accessible on the internet than learning the Ten Commandments, maybe the parents feeling that they need to opt out should have pay for a tutor/teacher to supervise their children during this time.
• When i was at school, bible studies was first thing in the morning on a certain day, those that didnt want their kids there were told to bring them to school after it was finished.
  A local school I know of notifies all parents of weekly bible class on a Friday morning and parents then have the choice to let their kids start later on that day
• Maybe a better understanding of exactly what bible in school is teaching the children. If it preaching to them similar to that in a church service then I don’t agree with that but like I said above there is benefit in children learning about the bible and the stories we all learnt about growing up so they can be mindful of different peoples religions and beliefs. I think also important to acknowledge other religions as we live in a very diverse country with many different cultures who have different spiritual beliefs.
• Alternative lesson eg Art, social studies can replace Bible studies
• Don’t know

You indicated no to the question one, could you please expand on your reasons for saying no.

30 responses

• Against religious indoctrination at such a young age Because I dont think it is done in the right context. They are preaching not teaching. I really don’t like the things my kids come home saying. I think religious education is a subject for older children to choose from at college.
• State schools are/should be a secular environment. Those requiring religious instruction can get this elsewhere. Teaching religion from the same place we teach maths and science gives it a credence and legitimacy it simply does not deserve.
• I do not believe a singular faith or belief system should be taught in a state school. I have no problem with religious studies that investigate a wide range of beliefs. I also do not hold with members of a religious organisation “teaching” the bible.
• I believe religious education is the responsibility of the family, not the School.
• Don’t see the point of teaching Bible to the children, not sure what value this adds to their overall education.
• I think if there are going to be any sort of religious study at school it should cover all religions not just one otherwise not at all.
• you are teaching one kind of religion – kids do not need to be pressurised to be told they have to follow – my belief is general understanding for all but if the child or family want to join a church – the information is available and let them decide if they want to join that specific church or to choose another – or if they don’t want religon -its not an issue – its there choice to make
• Not a relevant subject for school curriculum (NB Religious Studies OK, Bible Study no)
• I don’t agree with the bible education provided
• Religion is a personal choice.
• Bible in school is a hangover from years gone by and the associated creationism views directly contradict the scientific argument around the origins of the Earth, of humanity, and of other life – surely this must be confusing to children of this age group, when they perceive every statement adults’ make to be squarely placed in fact. Bible in school as it currently stands, only communicates one view point when there are many many others – why is this one deemed the correct one to be taught in school?
• I think all religions should be taught. Diversity and acceptance of other religions is important.
• When the bible teacher teaching Year 6 students say that Santa isn’t real and that it’s your parents. Not there place to say at all.
• I think the time could be spent learning more relevant subjects.
• I feel this should be an opt in subject not an opt out.
• I believe that religious instruction is something that should be undertaken by the family rather than as part of the school curriculum if you follow a particular religion.
• Unless a school is affiliatedto a particular church then I don’t think Bible in Schools is really necessary. If parents want a Christian based education then they can send their children to a school that us based on Christian values.
• children if needed can be taught about religion rather than a religion
• If you want religious teachings go to church
• Not a believer. Also I think the time spent is better used in learning. Its also very biast to only teach one religion…
• I would prefer if my child learnt about all religion’s not just christian beliefs
• Just feel that it’s not necessary in today’s curriculum. There is so many other interesting topics that could be learnt in this time. Old fashioned crafts for example.
• There is no place for religion in schools. If someone wants their child to have religious instruction they can go to church. I do not like the fact that the teachers often fill in as bible teachers. Teachers are positions of authority over the children and this is a misuse of their position.
• I feel that the teaching of the bible/ christianity is a one eyed approach. I think a better approach would be to teachkids about different religious belief’s and how they came about. This would also allow kids to better understand different peoples views and cultures.
• I don’t think it has a place in today’s culture. I think there should be a focus on values education that does not have a biblical slant.
• My children only attend because it is an out-out system rather than an opt-in. Because of this, there are very few that opt-out. Maybe the school should consider switching it to an opt-in system. My wife and I are agnostic and I see the current ‘Bible’ sessions only teach Christianity.
• Bible shouldn’t be taught in school. If a parent wants their child to do bible it should be done at home/Sunday school/ church or whatever. I think school is for intellectual learning. Not fiction.
• I think you should offer all Religions for RE
• Keep religion out of state schools.

If a decision is made to continue with Bible in School in 2018, what ideas could you share about how the school can cater for children who have opted out?

30 responses

• Library time. Sports. Critical thinking
• Something age relevant.
• Don’t do Bible in School – problem solved.
• I believe it should be opt in rather than opt out. Children who have not opted to participate could do revision or extension work, they could do science, which I feel is lacking in the Bombay curriculum. They could also do ethics, community or life skills
• I’d be happy for my children to simply read a book! Maybe some science activities would be a good alternative – the kids have enjoyed science in Akoranga sessions.
• Art
• What do you currently do? Are there kids that opt out at the moment?
• get taught basic religon and then be given work sheets or teaching kids how to ride a bike or how to cross a road or other school work that can be completed – not muck around in classroom or sit and talk – wasting the time
• More time needed for internet/library research on topic; perhaps they could research, prepare and present 5 min presentation on eg countries of the world
• Perhaps children could use this time to read or browse in the library or other space or do mathletics etc undersupervision of a teacher
• n/o
• If a decision is made to continue Bible in school then perhaps consider holding the classes after school hours – say immediately after the final bells goes. If the parents of Bible in school children deem the activity important enough for their child to attend, then they will accommodate a later pick-up time on that day.
• I would not opt my kids out as they really enjoy Bible and often discuss what they have learnt, there are huge moral learnings to be gained from Bible. I just think that there should be an awareness of other religions so they grow up having a balanced view of the world not just assume that one religion is the only one that is right.
• Another sporting activity
• Jump jam, Te Reo, Maths games.
• Not sure but kids who opt out could feel a bit isolated which is why opt in is a good idea.
• I would prefer the study of different cultures encompassing many different religions rather than focusing only on Christianity. I would want the kids to be involved in something fun and productive that is appropriately supervised, not just left in the library.
• Are there options to cover things like values/morals etc that aren’t coming from a religious viewpoint? My children are opted in, but only because I was under the impression that they basically don’t do anything of value if they are opted out.
• they just carry on with their normal schoolwork as expected
• They all work independently so they can just carry on in a separate location. The rooms 1,2 & 3 is big enough to accomodate that.
  Learning
• Something artist. Music lessons, theatre sports
• Crafts and sports lets the kids choose what interests them maybe?
• Why are children/parents asked to opt out? Inclusion should be an opt in question. If a parent wants their child to have religious education then they should give ‘enthuastic consent’, as opposed to consent by default.
• Teach them about another religion like Buddism or Islamic religions. I don’t particularly want my child opted out but would love her to learn other beliefs other than Christianity.
• I think bible should be opt in, not opt out.
• Change the system to be opt-in. That way those that wish to attend can all go off to the hall and the other children can remain in class
• Continued learning. Crafts. Arts. Free time. Whatever works that has some type of positive learning.
• Something fun, and where they don’t miss out. Easter is not about receiving chocolate but when Rose opted out she didn’t receive them as was made to feel different
• Have it RE after school hours

You selected ‘other’ in response to question one. Could you please expand on your reasons?

7 responses

• While no religious myself, I would welcome me the chance for my child to learn about religion, but all religions should be covered.
• Religious studies to cover a broader range of religions and beliefs
• I believe that the child should be able to participate in Bible Studies if the child or the parents wish the child too teaching one religion is very narrow sighted in a multicultural community
  We are not religious people.
• However, I don’t see the harm in the kids being exposed to religion through Bible in School. But I also don’t think it is an absolute necessity so I’m not fussed either way.
• We are a not opposed to it but also feel it’s not needed
• I think it would be beneficial to learn about all major religions, to instill understanding and acceptance.

Please use this box if you have any other comments/ ideas to raise.

20 responses

• Moving forward for bible in schools it’s hugely important and beneficial to educate the children about ALL the different types of religion not just Christianity
• If we believe our children have a right to learn bible in schools then why should our rights be taken away because some people don’t believe?
• I would like to see Bombay children receive exposure to multiple faith systems, widening their knowledge further. Alongside bible stories, there is an opportunity to explore material from many other sources
• Changing platforms and approaches should be used to stay relevant for these bible teachings
• With the diversity of our society, I feel it is wholly inappropriate to favour one religion.
• Years ago (8 anyway!) new parents were actively discouraged by School management to withdraw their kids from bible lessons. I’d like to think that ALL of our families now are fully aware it’s fine to withdraw them. I’d be disappointed if bible lessons were to continue, unless the lessons were changed to include ALL religions.
• I hope there would be exploratory discussion to enable the children to make their own choices
• Xxxxx is still attending bible studies as Xxxxx portrays religion in a manner appropriate to a young person but Xxxxx was pulled due to scare mongering by an older member of the church. If the likes of Xxxxx continue to teach bible studies I would be more than happy for Xxxxx to return.
• n/a
• I do not support introducing other religions to ‘balance’ with Bible in Schools
• Perhaps “citizenship” studies would be a more relevant and applicable subject to teach; especially the juniors.
• Everybody has there own beliefs and if they agree and disagree it cool I was brought up at school also once a week for a hour learning about the bible and I never ended up going to church, but I learnt about things and why we celebrate these things Everybody is different
• Bible in Schools shouldnt be limited by age. Children should be able to par take in it from the moment they start school.
• Historically, Bombay School has had Bible in School and its important for it to continue so the students can learn about the spiritual dimension.
• I don’t feel that religion in schools is relevant with such a diverse community of cultures and religious and non-religious backgrounds.
• Can these ideas and principles be taught in a different way, rather than through the teachings of the Bible
• Having Bible Studies at school is great and I love the fact Bombay does.
• bible is an extra curricular activity if parents feel the need for children to study the bible they can go to church in their own time.
• I’d be interested in an opt in version of a structured comparative religious education… as type social studies. By this I mean, prior to accepting any kind of religious education, speakers must be attained by the local Islamic, Hindi, Christian, Buddhist, Mormon, etc institutions. Each religion should be given equal time and access to children (one can’t ‘opt out’ of specific religion – this is an educational subject) Each should be a historical account of their religion, core tenants, etc. The premise is that, society is full of all kinds of people with all kinds of beliefs and we all need to get along. By understanding our neighbours better, we contribute to a stronger community, one with tolerance, compassion and empathy.
• No